Beginner in amateur astronomy

[vsds]

Hello everyone !

I am Daya and I just joined this forum. I have studied my Masters in Sweden for two years now and will start working in Södertälje in a few months time. I have always been interested in astronomy; I have some experience in the past stargazing with a 15x70 binoculars, a 70 mm refractor and just naked eye observation. I have now decided to take my interest to the next level by buying my own telescope, for which I need your help to decide.

Originally I had decided to buy the Orion Starblast 4.5 on an EQ-1 mount. The reasons for this was that it is inexpensive (important for a freshly graduating student), has a fast focal ratio (f/3.9) for deep sky viewing (which is what I'm looking for) and it is very small and portable (I don't have a car) with excellent reviews online. Additionally it also allows me to familiarize myself with an equatorial mount as I see myself dipping my toes into astrophotography around 2-3 years down the line. But just as I was about to make the purchase, I came across this ad for a used Skywatcher 127 Maksutov Cassegrain (f/12, 1500 mm focal length) on an EQ3-2 Mount on Blocket. The incredible part is that it is on sale for the SAME price as a new Starblast 4.5. So now I'm in a dilemma. I want to do deep sky observation for the next few years before transitioning to more advanced stuff. But the promise of an extremely cheap used Mak I can already use for webcam astrophotography (video frame stacking) of planets is making me think twice. Not to mention the fact that I can perhaps use the EQ3-2 for larger OTAs in the future.

What do you guys think ?

Also, I would love to go on star parties and other fun stuff this Fall and Winter with other, more experienced amateur astronomers from around the Stockholm area. I hope I can find those folks over here

Regards,
Daya

[Torbjörn]

Hello Daya,

Amateur astronomy is a fascinating hobby.

The two telescopes you are describing are very different. I have never used a 4.5" Starblast but Rod Mollise has and he has written about it:
http://uncle-rods.blogspot.se/2009/02/j ... hings.html
http://uncle-rods.blogspot.se/2015/05/s ... orral.html
It is mainly a wide field instrument for low magnification. Probably quite good for M31, the Andromeda galaxy, for instance.

The 127 mm Maksutov is a long focal length instrument, good for planets and smaller deep sky objects. With a 32 mm Plössl eye piece you will get 47 X magnification. I haven´t used exactly this model but I do own a 102 mm Maksutov (a smaller model) and I am very happy with its sharpness, transportability and ease of use. I use it as a travel scope, a planetary scope in the summer and when I am lazy
The only drawbacks of Maks are a relatively narrow field of view and relatively long cool down time.

When it comes to the mounts I own a EQ 3-2 and it is a quite sturdy mount for smaller telescopes. I have mainly used it with a 90 mm f/10 refractor. A EQ1 might be a wobbly mount, I have read stuff indicating this.

So you have to choose between two good but different scopes...but an EQ1 mount may be wobbly.

/Torbjörn

[Torbjörn]

I just came to think of one thing: An EQ-3-2 with motors and counterweight weighs 8,1+1,9=10 kg and a 127 Mak OTA weighs 3,4 kg so this is totally 13,4 kg. Plus other equipment.

This is relatively heavy if you need to carry it far...you might need for instance a mall cart with two wheels for shopping (dramaten in Swedish).

/Torbjörn

[ragge]

Hello Daya,

and welcome here !
Just be aware if an offer on Blocket looks too good, it may be a scammer. Meeting IRL would be necessary.

[vsds]

Hello Daya,

Amateur astronomy is a fascinating hobby.

The two telescopes you are describing are very different. I have never used a 4.5" Starblast but Rod Mollise has and he has written about it:
http://uncle-rods.blogspot.se/2009/02/j ... hings.html
http://uncle-rods.blogspot.se/2015/05/s ... orral.html
It is mainly a wide field instrument for low magnification. Probably quite good for M31, the Andromeda galaxy, for instance.

The 127 mm Maksutov is a long focal length instrument, good for planets and smaller deep sky objects. With a 32 mm Plössl eye piece you will get 47 X magnification. I haven´t used exactly this model but I do own a 102 mm Maksutov (a smaller model) and I am very happy with its sharpness, transportability and ease of use. I use it as a travel scope, a planetary scope in the summer and when I am lazy
The only drawbacks of Maks are a relatively narrow field of view and relatively long cool down time.

When it comes to the mounts I own a EQ 3-2 and it is a quite sturdy mount for smaller telescopes. I have mainly used it with a 90 mm f/10 refractor. A EQ1 might be a wobbly mount, I have read stuff indicating this.

So you have to choose between two good but different scopes...but an EQ1 mount may be wobbly.

/Torbjörn

Hej Torbjörn ! You make some pretty good points. Yes the EQ1 is wobbly as I have read in the forums but since I don't intend to do any astrophotography with it, I hope it should be sufficient.

I just came to think of one thing: An EQ-3-2 with motors and counterweight weighs 8,1+1,9=10 kg and a 127 Mak OTA weighs 3,4 kg so this is totally 13,4 kg. Plus other equipment.

This is relatively heavy if you need to carry it far...you might need for instance a mall cart with two wheels for shopping (dramaten in Swedish).

/Torbjörn

Absolutely ! This is exactly why I am unsure of buying the Mak 127 ! The seller weighed the entire assembly for me and said that it weighed 16 kg. Initially I thought I can carry that much weight, but now I am not so sure !

A lot depends on how the sky is around Stockholm. How far out do I need to get really dark skies, how many months of the year can I hope to see something in the sky, how can I travel to these places (only using public transport and by walking), etc. It would be great if someone could weigh in on this !

Hello Daya,

and welcome here !
Just be aware if an offer on Blocket looks too good, it may be a scammer. Meeting IRL would be necessary.

Hello Ragge ! Very valid point ! I am thinking of making a trip to Karlstad from Göteborg just to check out the scope !

[Torbjörn]

Hello again Daya!

The EQ1 might be wobbly also for visual use. I investigated this issue last year when I bought my 102 mm Maksutov. I had seen this model for sale with EQ1 mount but was advised not to buy it. Instead I bought a second hand Vixen Porta mount which is light but very stable. It is however not an EQ mount, it is an alt-az (altitude-azimuth) mount, completely manual. No motors. This combo weighs 7,5 kg.

There is a clear conflict between weight and performance when it comes to telescopes. The bigger the better of course…but…not more than you can handle.

A common advise is “buy a 150-200 mm Dobsonian reflector” but I suspect this would be difficult to handle the way you describe it. You need to be able to transport your telescope, not necessarily carry it, but maybe to use some sort of shopping cart:

http://www.bubbleroom.se/sv/accessoarer ... dark-clown

If it is possible to partly disassemble the telescope for transport (mount, mount-head, counter weight, OTA) it will be easier to handle.
I think you should talk to a dealer like for example Astrosweden and explain the situation to them, ask for their advice.

The Stockholm area is light polluted. You have a map here:

http://www.aquilastronomy.com/images/vl ... sweden.jpg

To get really dark skies you would need to go quite far out but you don’t need to go terribly far to get a much better conditions than in central Stockholm. Try to choose locations south of Stockholm since south is the most important direction. The yellow zone or the pale orange zone is a lot nicer that the red zone or the dark orange zone. The area between Strängnäs and Nyköping looks quite dark but that is a bit further out.

Compare light pollution maps with maps of the public transport systems. And consider safety too.

You can observe the Moon and the planets more or less the whole year but there is a summer break when it comes to Deep Sky, at least on our latitude. The deep sky season starts in the middle of August and ends about a week into May.

I don´t know of any star parties in Stockholm but there will be one in Mariestad September 2-4 called “Träff under stjärnorna” (Meeting under the stars).

Good luck, and don´t hesitate to ask more questions.

/Torbjörn

[Miska]

A lot depends on how the sky is around Stockholm. How far out do I need to get really dark skies, how many months of the year can I hope to see something in the sky, how can I travel to these places (only using public transport and by walking), etc. It would be great if someone could weigh in on this !

Hi Daya and welcome!

I can give some info from Södertälje because I used to live there few years ago.

There's a lake called Måsnaren, near Hovsjö, which is pretty much of a dark spot, but it's towards southwest/west/northwest, although if you don't mind walking some extra 500 meters towards the camping site you can get a view towards the southeast/south/southwest from there, yet there are some minor light pollution coming from the highway and nearby towns.

I captured following shots from there;
One of the first ones which I took over the lake area with a wide-angle camera lens (Samyang 14/2.8 ) on my Canon EOS 6D.

kopia.jpg (568.51 KiB) Viewed 7977 times

And yeah, here you can see how widely it goes over the lake area with the Milky Way on southwest and Northern Lights up north.

006-MW-Aurora.jpg (586.71 KiB) Viewed 7977 times

Anyways, nuff of the location, more about the equipment.

If you want to use your telescope, mount, camera etc on the filed you'd be needing a portable powerbank unless you don't have a car of course, which is a big plus for astrophotographs on the move.

Remember, the bigger the telescope is, the more extra equipment you'd be needing, such as an autoguider with a small but fast scope, a laptop so you can capture the images to and keep the autoguider tracking a nearby star next to the object you're shooting. A minimum mount for this would probably be a EQ4 or greater, just in case, and they weigh a tad more than EQ3-2 or equilevant models.
The reason why you would need a better mount is because of all the extra weight your putting on it; counterweights, autoguider, cables, camera, add on accessories etc. It easily goes over the maximum load of the mount if you don't keep this in mind.


Now I'm heading out to see if there are any noctilucent clouds out there. Been raining all day long with a few lightning bolts crossing the skies earlier today.

[vsds]

Hello again Daya!

The EQ1 might be wobbly also for visual use. I investigated this issue last year when I bought my 102 mm Maksutov. I had seen this model for sale with EQ1 mount but was advised not to buy it. Instead I bought a second hand Vixen Porta mount which is light but very stable. It is however not an EQ mount, it is an alt-az (altitude-azimuth) mount, completely manual. No motors. This combo weighs 7,5 kg.

There is a clear conflict between weight and performance when it comes to telescopes. The bigger the better of course…but…not more than you can handle.

A common advise is “buy a 150-200 mm Dobsonian reflector” but I suspect this would be difficult to handle the way you describe it. You need to be able to transport your telescope, not necessarily carry it, but maybe to use some sort of shopping cart:

http://www.bubbleroom.se/sv/accessoarer ... dark-clown

If it is possible to partly disassemble the telescope for transport (mount, mount-head, counter weight, OTA) it will be easier to handle.
I think you should talk to a dealer like for example Astrosweden and explain the situation to them, ask for their advice.

The Stockholm area is light polluted. You have a map here:

http://www.aquilastronomy.com/images/vl ... sweden.jpg

To get really dark skies you would need to go quite far out but you don’t need to go terribly far to get a much better conditions than in central Stockholm. Try to choose locations south of Stockholm since south is the most important direction. The yellow zone or the pale orange zone is a lot nicer that the red zone or the dark orange zone. The area between Strängnäs and Nyköping looks quite dark but that is a bit further out.

Compare light pollution maps with maps of the public transport systems. And consider safety too.

You can observe the Moon and the planets more or less the whole year but there is a summer break when it comes to Deep Sky, at least on our latitude. The deep sky season starts in the middle of August and ends about a week into May.

I don´t know of any star parties in Stockholm but there will be one in Mariestad September 2-4 called “Träff under stjärnorna” (Meeting under the stars).

Good luck, and don´t hesitate to ask more questions.

/Torbjörn

Hello again Torbjörn ! In that case, do you think an Orion Spaceprobe 130ST on an EQ2 mount is a better idea ? Thank you for detailing the viewing seasons here in Sweden ! I wonder what the astronomers in Sweden do in the summer haha !

A lot depends on how the sky is around Stockholm. How far out do I need to get really dark skies, how many months of the year can I hope to see something in the sky, how can I travel to these places (only using public transport and by walking), etc. It would be great if someone could weigh in on this !

Hi Daya and welcome!

I can give some info from Södertälje because I used to live there few years ago.

There's a lake called Måsnaren, near Hovsjö, which is pretty much of a dark spot, but it's towards southwest/west/northwest, although if you don't mind walking some extra 500 meters towards the camping site you can get a view towards the southeast/south/southwest from there, yet there are some minor light pollution coming from the highway and nearby towns.

I captured following shots from there;
One of the first ones which I took over the lake area with a wide-angle camera lens (Samyang 14/2.8 ) on my Canon EOS 6D.

kopia.jpg

And yeah, here you can see how widely it goes over the lake area with the Milky Way on southwest and Northern Lights up north.

006-MW-Aurora.jpg

Anyways, nuff of the location, more about the equipment.

If you want to use your telescope, mount, camera etc on the filed you'd be needing a portable powerbank unless you don't have a car of course, which is a big plus for astrophotographs on the move.

Remember, the bigger the telescope is, the more extra equipment you'd be needing, such as an autoguider with a small but fast scope, a laptop so you can capture the images to and keep the autoguider tracking a nearby star next to the object you're shooting. A minimum mount for this would probably be a EQ4 or greater, just in case, and they weigh a tad more than EQ3-2 or equilevant models.
The reason why you would need a better mount is because of all the extra weight your putting on it; counterweights, autoguider, cables, camera, add on accessories etc. It easily goes over the maximum load of the mount if you don't keep this in mind.


Now I'm heading out to see if there are any noctilucent clouds out there. Been raining all day long with a few lightning bolts crossing the skies earlier today.

Those are some spectacular pictures indeed Saarikko ! So now I am not so worried about the light pollution being as bad as it is nearer to Stockholm.

And regarding the rest of your points, I am not really looking to do any astrophotography actually. I just want to stick to visual observation for the short and medium term future ! So will I still need a powerbank ? (for the motor drives for instance)

And may I ask how the aurora was visible this far south ? Or was it visible only due to the long exposures ?

[AstroFriend]

Hi Daya,

This is one place you can go by bus to:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=11187

Use google translator.

You can also ask a question at that thread if there are other who want to follow, maybe one with a car can take up others.

What we do in summer? Oh... there is always a lot of work to find or build new parts to get the astronomy equipment perform better :-)

http://astrofriend.eu/astronomy/project ... jects.html

/Lars

[Torbjörn]

Hello Daya!
It is probably a good telescope (just like the other ones we talked about) but I would still advice you to discuss the question of suitable mount with a reputable dealer. Many telescopes are sold with under-dimensioned mounts and eye-pieces that are so-so. This telescope would weigh about 11 kg.

On the other hand: Transportability is an important issue and sometimes it is necessary to make compromises.

I am myself a big fan of mobile astronomy and go out when I can, but the planets can be observed just as well from a city.

In the summer? All sorts of summer activities

Astrofriend knows more about astronomy in the Stockholm area.

Light pollution causes two problems: A general light pollution of sky, and when you get a bit out of the city, bad light domes in certain directions. This makes it a good idea to use different places depending on what you are doing. The galaxies in the spring, rising in the east, would be better to observe east to south east of Stockholm for example. Maybe close to the sea.

/Torbjörn

[Tannerswe]

And may I ask how the aurora was visible this far south ? Or was it visible only due to the long exposures ?

The Aurora/northern lights is visible quite often from the Stockholm area, at least through the camera.

I live even further to the south, Kalmar/Öland, and here we can photograph the Aurora like 20-30 times in a year, have ok visual view 4-6 times/year and really good visual view 1-2/year. Then perhaps once every 2-5 year, we get crazy view that matches the aurora in the northern parts of Sweden. But it´s all up to the sun how often and how intense it gets :P

Keep an eye in Norrsken Sverige on fb to get a heads up when the sun conditions are right. https://www.facebook.com/norrskensverige/

[vsds]

Hi Daya,

This is one place you can go by bus to:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=11187

Use google translator.

You can also ask a question at that thread if there are other who want to follow, maybe one with a car can take up others.

What we do in summer? Oh... there is always a lot of work to find or build new parts to get the astronomy equipment perform better :-)

http://astrofriend.eu/astronomy/project ... jects.html

/Lars

Tack för svaret. Jag kan läsa och förstor svenska lite så där och har men det är lättare at samtala på engelska för mig själv. Jag har läst redan länken och verkar som det ligger jätte långt från Södertälje där jag ska bo i några veckor.

I would love to lend an extra pair of hands for some project that you may need and get my hands dirty ! The only problem is access to a workshop for cutting, drilling, etc.

Hello Daya!
It is probably a good telescope (just like the other ones we talked about) but I would still advice you to discuss the question of suitable mount with a reputable dealer. Many telescopes are sold with under-dimensioned mounts and eye-pieces that are so-so. This telescope would weigh about 11 kg.

On the other hand: Transportability is an important issue and sometimes it is necessary to make compromises.

I am myself a big fan of mobile astronomy and go out when I can, but the planets can be observed just as well from a city.

In the summer? All sorts of summer activities

Astrofriend knows more about astronomy in the Stockholm area.

Light pollution causes two problems: A general light pollution of sky, and when you get a bit out of the city, bad light domes in certain directions. This makes it a good idea to use different places depending on what you are doing. The galaxies in the spring, rising in the east, would be better to observe east to south east of Stockholm for example. Maybe close to the sea.

/Torbjörn

Yes, I read reviews online that the EQ2 is much better than the EQ1 (for visual astronomy). Good point about the galaxy viewing in the spring. What are the best targets in the sky in the Fall ?

And may I ask how the aurora was visible this far south ? Or was it visible only due to the long exposures ?

The Aurora/northern lights is visible quite often from the Stockholm area, at least through the camera.

I live even further to the south, Kalmar/Öland, and here we can photograph the Aurora like 20-30 times in a year, have ok visual view 4-6 times/year and really good visual view 1-2/year. Then perhaps once every 2-5 year, we get crazy view that matches the aurora in the northern parts of Sweden. But it´s all up to the sun how often and how intense it gets :P

Keep an eye in Norrsken Sverige on fb to get a heads up when the sun conditions are right. https://www.facebook.com/norrskensverige/

Wow ! I have been in Göteborg for 2 years now and I am yet to see one. Guess it is the darned Göteborg weather !

[Torbjörn]

Hello again,

Some of the finest targets are the Messier objects. A selection:

In early fall: Globular clusters M13 & M92 in Hercules. Ring nebula M57 in Lyra. Dumbbell nebula M27 in Vulpecula. The globular clusters M15 (in Pegasus) and M2 (in Aquarius).

In late fall: The big galaxies M31 (The Andromeda galaxy) with neighbours M32 and M110, M33 (the Triangulum galaxy).

http://www.astromart.com/articles/artic ... cle_id=487

/Torbjörn

[Miska]

Thanks for liking the photos. Not everyday I can impress someone with such images.

About the equipment:
Every motorized equipment needs some sort of power source to work, so yes, you would be needing a powerbank to be able to use your equipment if it has a motor. If you're getting a mount without a motor then no.

Auroras:
They can be seen as south as Spain, if it hits with that magnitude (G5). Jörgen ( @tannerswe ) knows a lot about them.

-

Jörgen, hur går det med appen förresten?

[vsds]

Hello again everyone !

I have finally ordered the goodies and should receive them next week. This is what I ended up buying in the end:

1. Orion Starblast 4.5 EQ.
2. Astrotrack motor drive for the EQ-1 mount. It was on sale as a package with the Starblast.
3. Used Skywatcher 20mm Ultrawide 66 AFoV eyepiece from Stjärnhuset Astroboot.
4. Used Skywatcher 2x Barlow from Stjärnhuset Astroboot.
5. Used Skywatcher moon filter from Stjärnhuset Astroboot.

I am now looking for a way to transport the EQ1 mount, OTA and all the accessories on public buses, tunnelbana, etc (or maybe even on a bicycle). Can anyone give me ideas of what kind of a bag I can buy within Sweden itself ?

Regards